| Tully:
This is Tully. You are listening to Sirius 28 Faction. I am joined by
a very special guest, a guy who inspired and has been ripped off by about
probably 75% of the bands that we play on this channel, John Lydon a.k.a.
Johnny Rotten.
John Lydon: Yeah, well if that be true, good ‘cause I salute the
other 25% who didn’t rip me off. That would be exceptionally good
of them.
Tully: I might be being generous with that 75 actually. So tell
everyone…
JL: What do you mean by that?
Tully: I mean that it’s probably more like 90% of the bands
we play are ripping you off.
JL: Yeah, yeah that’s probably the truth of it but you know it’s
hard to be humble when you know you don’t mean it.
Tully: Right. Well no need to be humble here. Um, in case anyone
doesn’t know can you tell everyone what has been going on with the
Sex Pistols and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
JL: Well, the Sex Pistols at the moment don’t have a recording contract,
right, and I knew that this public image limited me as a solo artist and
in light of that we’ve been like lumbered with this ridiculous induction
from outer space, basically it might as well be. But it’s basically
record music industry people, getting together and trying to hogwash us
and tie us down in a nonsensical award. It’s not a vote from the
people and the people is what the Sex Pistols and John Rotten in particular
look out for. And so anything that comes from inside the industry we’re
very, very suspicious and wary of.
This is this industry kinda
trying to co-opt us into their little institutions and they’re not
gonna have it. They’ve never done us any favors. We’ve been
at war with the record business since the day we started and we intend
to keep it that way. This is not us just being miserable sad sacks
and out just willy-nilly rejecting something. This is not an achievement.
To be awarded for fame is not an achievement, not in light of the good
work we’ve done over the years. You know it’s like 30 years
now, solid will not give in, and well no time soon are we gonna turn tail
and run for that kind of nonsense.
I think it’s a bit sad
that the, the acts that do turn up at these kind of awards, they look
like old flappers and slappers don’t they? And they look greedy
and they need some kind of accolade to be reminded of, of what? I think
it’s to make up for the fact that they don’t have any real
genuine quality. It’s a sad, sad thing. Although, I will say good
on you Ozzy Osborne. He’ll always be alright by me.
Tully: You’re okay with Ozzy? That’s actually who
came to mind first when you were talking about people looking a little
bit…
JL: I was thinking of that Blondie fat bag but you know…
Tully: Hmmm...
JL: Cause you know she made some ridiculous rubbish comments and she shouldn’t
have. She saucily implied that ‘oh yes well the Sex Pistols, of
course, well we expect them not to turn up because that’s part of
our act.’ It’s her who’s got an act, not us. We ain’t
acting. Um, and she brazenly suggested that she was going to try and play
a few Sex Pistols numbers live. Oh good luck you fat bag. Good luck. You
try squeaking those songs out of that tonnage. No way, no way. It would
have been appallingly interesting though. Would’ve made great live
TV.
Tully: So you’re saying that Debbie Harry has let herself
go?
JL: Let herself down, and let us down too. She knows us better than that.
Debbie, you know me better than that. You know, shut your lips, babe.
You know? You’re talking out your ass again. It’s not pleasant
to hear her do that.
Tully: So what would you say…
JL: She doesn’t need to. She’s implying an us and them. It’s
alright for her to accept the award and be institutionalized. It’s
not alright for her. Punk is a different thing. We’re, we’re
clean of that, that business. Ozzy comes from a madness rock and roll,
heavy metal world, where that’s alright for them. Alright. But it
isn’t for us, it isn’t. We rely on what the people say. If
it is the peoples vote, I’m up for it. But anything that has
secret judges, right, this is not acceptable. Not acceptable.
Tully: So for…
JL: This is kinda like what George Bush is trying to pull on this country
at the moment, isn’t it? Secret agendas and spying and decisions
made without our consent. Not having it. An induction? That’s a
strange terminology. It’s vaguely sexual and involves duct tape
and anyone who’s ever been in a band know what duct tape is used
for.
Tully: Well, what is duct tape used for?
JL: Uh hum.
Tully: Ah, so then you say it’s not…
JL: Are you in this business or not?
Tully: Maybe not in that business. Maybe I should be.
Tully: So, then if it’s not appropriate for a punk rock
band to accept this induction…
JL: No, no, no. It can be. It isn’t appropriate for them to induct
us without our consent.
Tully: So for The Clash or The Ramones to go, that was okay?
JL: Well, The Clash went and then rescinded a week later, you know. And
I emphasize the word week. Well, The Ramones what was only one of them
alive and I don’t know if he was much to do with them in the first
place. We’re not in competition with each other and what I really,
really refute about awards ceremonies and all of this is, it somehow implies
someone’s better than someone else at something, and that’s
not good. This is the one industry that, where we shouldn’t be like
that. That’s why the Grammys I’m dead against. Years ago I
went to the Grammys and they did a very, very special introduction.
Tully: Did they?
JL: I did.
Tully: Oh, you did?
JL: For VH1. It was going to be a pilot for “Rotten TV.” Only
VH1 absolutely panicked with my behavior.
Tully: Really? Like did they censor you?
JL: Yes, I spoke it like it is. I spoke it like it is. Oh and I’ll
tell you what. I’ll remind you of something here. Remember Madonna
was bragging about, you know, she went there a while back and ‘cause
Dave Bowie turned this down, too. Good on you Dave, that’s another
man who knows what quality is. But Madonna went with a cardboard cut-out
of Dave Bowie, you know, to represent him. You know? When I did the Grammys
years before, I went with a cardboard cut-out of Madonna because I knew
she would reject speaking to me. So she really just hogged my thing, and
then plunked it onto Dave Bowie. Alright.
Tully: Well how do you like that?
JL: Yeah, well that’s typical Madonna isn’t it? Let’s
face it she gets everything out of someone else’s catalogue.
Tully: Has she? You’re not a fan of Madonna’s?
JL: Who would be? I’ve, you know, I love early 40’s movies,
I love those style of clothes, I like what us punks used to wear and then
when I see it regurgitated on her, I’m not so happy.
Tully: I see.
JL: Alright. She’s not exactly the voice of originality. This is
a woman who, well, a couple of years back um, we approached her hubby,
you know with view to um, maybe editing, directing a film of my life story
based on my book, “ No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs” The curt
reply was they’d never heard of me.
Tully: They didn’t say that. Madonna? Was it Guy something,
what’s his name?
JL: Yeah, yeah. Guy, useless guy.
Tully: He’s never heard of…
JL: Well hello, that same week in an English magazine was Madonna wearing
a Sex Pistols T-shirt.
Tully: Well naturally.
JL: You could say that’s a sense of humor, I think not. I think
it’s a cheek, I think it’s a liberty. Be honest, you know?
Tully: Um, one thing when you were on the Jimmy Kimmel Show…
JL: I write my own songs and I write them very well and I always have
done. And I’ve never given a nod and a wink to any genre as a rip-off
merchant.
Tully: I want to speak to you a little about the current scene
and rip-off merchants so to speak. If you’ll stick around we’ll
be back with more John Lydon here on Sirius 28 Faction.
Tully: It is Sirius 28 Faction, It’s Tully and I am still in studio
with John Lydon.
Tully: I want to ask you. On Jimmy Kimmel the other night um,
you mentioned the Sex Pistols had been turned down for 3 years by the
Hall of Fame.
JL: Yeah, yeah which was news to me actually. I was surprised at that
even, that they even bothered to nominate us in the first place and then
reject us. Again, it’s all done by like secret and who are these
people anyway? And so there it comes finally they decide to nominate us
or to induct us but it came with a letter. Well the first way we found
out actually was in the music papers. They never bothered to contact us
first and that in itself is a slap.
Tully: Sure
JL: Alright. That’s like, that’s unacceptable bad behavior
but the bleeding cheek of the price tag to go with it. You know, I’m
gonna pay you for telling me I’m famous.
Tully: And this is something you put on the website…
JL: That wouldn’t make me famous that would make me ludicrous.
Tully: …that it would cost you several thousand dollars.
JL: No insult, no insult to the very fine rapper chap, you know. Ludicrous
in the actual real sense of the word.
Tully: Right. Actually ludicrous. So they said that you would
actually have to pay several thousand dollars to go and have a table at
your own induction and I take it that was one of the major reasons why
you…
JL: Yeah, you could offer me money. That might tempt me but not much but
you certainly aren’t gonna charge me.
Tully: So it raises the question would have you gone, would you
have been more likely to go had it been for free?
JL: Look, again, I’ll tell you this I do work for charity all the
time, right. If it was something that I could understand on all those
levels but it really isn’t, but guess what I’ve got far better
charities that I dedicate myself to all the time. I don’t know what
their game is and it’s all attached to, I don’t even know
how long this institution has been around
Tully: Not very long.
JL: Not very long. They’re trying to imply that it’s a twenty
year thing, it is most certainly not. When I was doing Rotten TV, I asked
for permission to film inside the museum and they rejected me.
Tully: Really?
JL: Yes. Really.
Tully: It would seem they could use the good press. Which, incidentally,
you’re giving them more press this week then they’ve ever
had.
JL: Well we’ve had gigs canceled in Cleveland because it, um, you
know, of their control and manipulation over the industry and their effect
on local promoters they get to cancel because the Hall of Fame Museum
was up to something that particular month and we might somehow clash with
that. Right. There are several, like, little instances that go on here.
There’s also, they have an exhibit that I have a great problem with,
well, they’re claiming it’s my original lyrics alright and
it’s on display, now you need to prove that to me right.
Tully: You mean they actually say that they have the piece of paper that
you wrote it down on.
JL: Yes, and I questioned that and I wanted to know what their sources
were and they would not tell me because again it’s more secrecy.
And in fact they had the nerve to tell me that they know it was the genuine
article, in light of Mr. Rotten here, who’s telling you it isn’t.
Because their sources are irrefutable. And that’s their terminology
that they used on me. Right. So again, and I don’t want to sound
boring but if my words are good enough for you, so should my word. And
when I tell you that, that ain’t right, it ain’t right. And
if they want to know if it’s genuine or not they should have asked
me first.
But they do not involve the
bands or the acts at all in this institution. We’re like fodder
for them. We’re like, when you go into any large record company
and they have all the gold discs on the wall but there is no personality
involved in that and they don’t really respect us as human beings.
And so there it goes, of course it’s a total institution and the
institutionalization of freedom. Music is about freedom by the way, alright,
and it isn’t about fame. Alright. And anyone who is in this just
for fame, go to American Idol, and see what that does to ya.
Tully: So do you not enjoy fame?
JL: Fame no, no it’s a useless damn thing. Infamy is what I’m
up to. Infamy, they’ve all got it infamy. Ha.
Tully: What’s the distinction to you?
JL: Fame is going along with the line, you’re towing the line, they’ve
firmly got their hand in your pocket, they’re giving you little
bits of money, little awards and accolades and tin cups here and there
and presents and whatever, but you end up owning nothing because you’re
in somebody else’s control. You’re being manipulated, they’re
orchestrating your career for you. You know it’s a rather talentless
approach to life, I would think.
Tully: So do you think it’s possible in this day and age…
JL: Look, I’ll tell you I’d rather be completely unknown or
completely terribly infamous than merely famous.
Tully: There was a rumor going around that you actually were gonna
turn up for the induction and that Green Day was going to induct you.
JL: Oh well there’s rumors for you. You know if you’re gonna
live in a world of gossip, you’re out of my league. Alright, you’re
way down the line. Don’t believe what you hear, unless you hear
it from (makes horse sound) the horses mouth.
Tully: So would Green Day to you…
JL: Green Day were asked by, there is some truth in this but not much,
and here is the thing: Green Day were asked by the Hall of Fame, would
they award us this thing. Now they were asked this before we were asked
if we would even accept it. Right. So we weren’t even involved in
who was going to award us. But it allowed Green Day the chance to go,
“Oh no we turn our noses up at that. Oh no, won’t have nothing
to do with that. The Sex Pistols aren’t punk. We’re real punk.”
So those fat little kids that turn up three years in a row with the same
American Idiot album on the Grammys have the nerve to be pompous about
us.
Tully: Is that really what happened? That’s incredible.
JL: Yes. That’s incredible well that’s the truth of it. And
that’s why I’m annoyed with them alright? Fat silly little
rich kids, you know, in make-up and punk gear. Well they haven’t
earned the wings to wear that kind of clobber. Right. I’ve fought
a hard life here and I’ve got the scars to prove it. And you know,
consistently, continuously volatility attacked for the things I believe
in and yet I don’t do anything to hurt anyone. Right, but they come
along and they think they can con it all up right, and a record company
behind it with very expensive videos behind that mob, very expensive productions
and have the nerve to call themselves punk? No. Plunk. Plunk is what they
are. Bunch of fat plunkers.
Tully: Are they fat?
JL: That lead singer is. What’s his name?
Tully: Billy Joe Armstrong.
JL: That’s it. I just read an appraisal of the Sex Pistols by him
this morning. It’s a press blurb that they put out. It’s on
the Internet. It’s hilarious.
Tully: What did he have to say?
JL: It’s not even his own words. These people piece together all
our press over the years and amalgamated it into an appraisal of us. He’s
dead right though, we are original, we don’t come from nothing,
we haven’t copied anything and if that makes us leaders of men,
yeah, we are. We are, we definitely hit on a few high notes. What you
don’t understand about punk and how it’s perceived in America
or as it’s perceived in England is that punk there, I took on institutions,
governments, I looked at long term jail sentences for some serious, serious
activity here. Alright. I have been definitely monitored and I am still
under surveillance by Scotland Yard, MI5, MI6 and the whole lot and I
don’t mind.
Tully: How do you know that?
JL: How do I know? Because everytime I go for a visa, I have to go through
this certain amount of interrogation that most normal people, except for
terrorists, wouldn’t have to put up with. I’m under the same
like watchful eye. That’s alright, that’s okay. I’ve
been openly debated in the houses of Parliament under the terrorist act,
this is 25, 30 years ago. That’s how I know it. When I hear my name
in the British House of Commons, with MPs talking it, I don’t think
you could get a more clearer example of yes, you’re being surveyed.
Tully: So you perceive this current administration to be conceivably
fascist?
JL: Administration is a clever word but it doesn’t apply to this
lot. They’re not clever enough. They’re a headless chicken.
They’re quite mindless. George Bush is not a smart boy. He’s
not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. He’s not even a good
ol’ boy. He’s a fake Texan is what he is. He’s spoiled,
fat, brat from too much over-privileged and undereducated. He surrounded
himself there with a bunch of real sharpies that really have to be observed
carefully. These rows and all these nonsense people wrapped around him,
these Cheneys. There’s so much corruption attached to them, the
suspicion of it but as soon as you want to investigate that all the doors
are closed.
And it’s implied you’re
un-American to ask those questions. No. It is completely American to want
to know the truth of the thing. I do expect my politicians to be a clean
as the driven snow. I do. I really do. Only at the moment it’s snow
alright but only it’s full of piss holes. There’s lots of
yellow stains going on out there. Sweep them up. A big shovel. And watch
who you vote for next time round, and I pity the Democrats I’ll
tell ya. If Mrs. Clinton gets in there, and she’s the head nominee
for the Democrat party, they’ll have shot themselves in the foot,
because she can’t be trusted either. She was attached to savings
and loan scandals way back when, alright. There is all kinds of twists
and turns going on there. And that clever devious way of ignoring her
husband’s cigar and all of that is a little bit nonsensical to me.
I don’t see an honesty in it. I’m just so suspicious of it.
All of it. It seems tarnished to me. Alright.
Tully: Fair enough. John Lydon on politics in America. Still no
future. We’ll be back with more. Sirius 28.
JL: Well there will be. There will be. That’s the point of “God
Save the Queen”. There will be no future for you unless you get
up and do something about it. Stop rolling over. America you’ve
lost your center of rebellion. Right, your true point and purpose. Remember
you are the spirit of rebellion. Hello. You got rid of us. But we’re
back.
Tully: Yes. Well I do want to talk to you more about that in a
second. More to come here on Faction.
Tully: We are back with a heavily panting John Lydon. That’s alright,
feel free, this is uncensored radio and I guess that applies to pleasuring
yourself in the studio.
JL: I’m so sick of being monitored and listened in on and edited
and cut up, you know, for all kinds of like different affiliated kinds
of reasons.
Tully: We have no affiliations and no friends.
JL: It’s so nice to just tell it like it is. You know, tell it like
it is. The simplest thing in the world is to be truthful and so few people
do it. I could explain it this way really, it’s pure laziness I
tell the truth I can’t be bothered to remember a lie.
Tully: And yet that’s how this whole industry runs. You’re
talking about the music industry and the people who run the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame. They’re professional…
JL: Liars. Yeah.
Tully: And it’s an easy thing to say…
JL: And I don’t know if they are liars. That may be too harsh a
word for them. I think that they are completely unaware of the damage
they’re doing to us out there. They just think that’s the
way it is. You know, and I suppose the assumption is that we’re
all a bit like Kiss. You know, that’s it. It’s just an image.
Ha ha ha. Some of us actually live a lifestyle and have values, whatever
they may be. And you might not like my values but they’re mine and
they’re genuine. And I’m perfectly willing and capable of
debating them with anybody at any point, on any issue. As you should be.
And if I’m wrong, I’m so happy to learn. Because that will
be, you know, the point of existence is to get it right, finally. The
day I kick the bucket, I’ll have got it right.
Tully: Are you getting closer?
JL: No. I’m 50 years old this year and I’m proud of it. I
don’t feel terrible, I don’t feel worn out and I do not feel
like giving in. I, oddly enough, feel like I’ve got more energy
now then I used to. I’m far more tolerant, in a weirder way. Because
I’ve worked things out better. You see when we started the Sex Pistols
in a world of horrible confusion, we were slung into the deep end there
and utterly hated and ridiculed and viscously assaulted too. I mean, I’m
serious when I say the scars are still on me.
Tully: You were stabbed at one point.
JL: I’ve been stabbed. I’ve had a bottle put in my face. I’ve
had my leg ripped from the kneecap up to the hip with a machete. I know,
I know what pain is, you know. And the worst thing of the lot was when
Chrissie Hynde pierced my ear.
Tully: Out of everything, Chrissie Hynde from the Pretenders.
What happened?
JL: Oh it was funny. I wanted to have my ear pierced but you know
this was England then and it was all ‘men don’t do things
like that.’ So that’s why I decided to do it. So we did it
in the women’s toilet at a pub called the Red Cow, while The Stranglers
were playing. Terrible band live, awful. Good record, fun records but
live didn’t carry. So we had nothing better to do but go in the
toilet with a safety pin and a bar of soap. And I bled for a week but
she had great fun. Not bad for old vegetarian Chrissie.
Tully: Um, let me ask you…
JL: Chrissie accepted, Chrissie Hynde accepted a nomination
Tully: To the Hall of Fame?
JL: Yeah, and apparently wrote a really insulting note about I’m
so against those Sex Pistols and their nihilistic attitude. Good God Chrissie,
you know.
Tully: She wrote that about you?
JL: Well maybe somebody wrote it for her. I have yet to talk to her personally
on that but it’s a dodgey old world out there.
Tully: That’s a hell of a thing to say about…
JL: It’s a hell of thing to allow to go by, you know. You either
back that statement up or you back right off it. As yet, it’s still
unclear. It’s a dodgey one. The implications in it. You know. Chrissie
know who your mates are. You know. She’s always been a friend of
mine, always, you know. But I don’t like journalist or bodies or
institutions, that word again, getting in the way between us, they’re
killing us off. Which takes me to, no need for questions from you here…
Tully: No, no I’m just gonna sit back here and listen.
JL: Punk, what is punk? What does it mean? Who’s the first punk
band? Who’s king of the punks? Who’s this, who’s that?
Stuff all that. I don’t know what that title meant in the first
place. It just appeared one day in Melody Maker Magazine, a journalist
called Caroline Coon with a picture of me, um, I can’t remember
what was next to it, some other duffo article. But it had “King
of the Punks” and my face, I was furious. I had no idea. Punk? What?
I’m being labeled now, being given a category, by people I haven’t
even spoken to me, haven’t asked me. No, I’m a human being.
I don’t like categories. When I buy music, I don’t go to the
this section and then the that section. List it by names not categories.
Those categories are killing
us all, killing us off. And somehow they created a new market of crossover
acts that combine this category with that category and that’s a
false genre. You understand, that’s like, that’s like a wisp
of two other shadows put together, you don’t need it. You should
have your own original thoughts, first and foremost. Why are the Sex Pistols
original, why is PIL original? Why is anything we do original? Cause we’re
no good. We can’t copy, bugger all. And you shouldn’t need
to. The power and glory of music is that it’s an honest thought.
It’s not about note perfect, it never ever has been, all the best
music in the world is practically nearly unmusical. It’s about feeling,
drama, content. If you want to know what punk is its real emotion, it’s
not studded belts, and legs apart and tuff looks and silly eye-liner make-up.
That isn’t punk. That’s plunk.
Tully: Speaking of which. Have you been to the Warped Tour? Are
you familiar with the Warped Tour?
JL: No.
Tully: The Warped Tour is this annual thing, it’s pretty
big now, with about 60 bands.
JL: Anal or annual? Did I hear you say anal thing?
Tully: Yes, it’s this anal tour that goes around. It’s
fun for the whole family. It’s wonderful. But it’s all these
so-called punk bands, I wonder what do you…
JL: So-called punk bands are proud to all be gathered together as punk.
I mean I’ve done a few of those kinds of festivals myself but I
don’t view it like that because you’re getting yourself into
an us and them mode and your accepting a category and a uniform, and once
you do that you’ve lost your purpose in life. Us and them is the
reason we have wars. Get rid of us and them and let it just be us and
all our differences. The thing I love the most in music tends to be the
things that are so extremely different from my own beliefs in music that
I can truly, truly appreciate it. When it’s vaguely my way then
it becomes more than silly, more than silly. You can’t think, I
want to be in a band, I want to be famous, who should I copy. Shall we
be a rap band? Shall we be heavy metal? Shall we be punk? This isn’t
thinking at all. This is copying. You know and again, no real personal
dig at Madonna. I’ve always noted her image comes directly, quite
clearly, almost 100% from something that was done ever so much better
originally.
Tully: You brought up hip-hop. What do you think of hip-hop? Have
you enjoyed it at any point?
JL: It is strange thing isn’t it now? Again it’s become a
category that people now rigidly adhere to. Unfortunately it’s become
almost silly. It’s black acts, white audience. It’s just bizarre.
It’s lost its humanity. I mean there’s some excellent, excellent
things. Jay-Z can kick up a good storm musically behind himself. He’s
got a deeper understanding of the bigger world.
Tully: I think so.
JL: Just masterpieces, some of his stuff. Absolute gems. But the majority
of them are emulating each other and one more “Yo Killer MC,”
you know, and their gun bragging, you know, yapping on about shoot outs
in Korean sweet shops, it’s just nonsense to me. There’s an
idealization there of low-life. And it should be of the high ground mates.
Get it right. Stevie Wonder, you reached a higher ground.
Tully: Do you think that someone might not have said the same
thing about the Sex Pistols?
JL: Well I do what I do to get out of the ghetto, not firmly stay in it.
The ghetto is something that none of us wanted to be born into. Right
,we need to get out of it, it’s unfortunate that the ghetto is not
so much a physical act, it’s a mental act and you keep yourself
in it. Education is a very fine thing. Don’t run away from it, run
to it. It’s free. My God anything that is given to you for free
at least have a go at it.
Tully: Okay. Well we’re gonna take another quick break then
I think we will wrap it up with John Lydon.
Tully: John Lydon in here at the Faction studios, it’s Tully.
JL: Here we go. Punk. What is punk?
Tully: Who invented punk?
JL: Who invented it? Who’s the best punk? Who did this? Who did
that? Forget all that and just listen, use your ears and your eyes and
your nose, usually with half these bands. I’m bored in the brain
with this Americanization of punk assuming that the Sex Pistols copied
or hugely influenced by The Ramones. The fact is I liked The Ramones first
album but you got to learn to listen. There is nothing similar in
any way, shape or form between us and them. The point is where they stand
in their own merit is that they’re different to us, and accept that.
And don’t try to smear them or us by combining our names. It’s
so wrong.
Tully: Well, I agree with you. The sound is not similar.
JL: It’s lousy cheating journalism has got to stop because really
to me it’s like journalist really pushing for their own little angles
in things and their own need to understand how the world is. Don’t
co-opt us. Don’t do that. We may be in your record collection but
don’t file us under this and that and that. Have it all or leave
it all alone.
Tully: I think when you listen to the Sex Pistols today, what
you hear is a rock and roll band. There is a lot of bands from the era
that are identifiably punk. I hear, it’s rock and roll, with obviously
your own distinct attitude.
JL: Even though at the time I was furious at the term even rock and roll,
which is probably why they were looking for a new term and came up with
punk. Because I don’t like the category but there’s a loose
thing now, rock and roll take it or leave it. But it really is just people
speaking their minds from the heart. From the heart.
Tully: What of this story, I think it was in the recent Ramones
movie, of this moment when The Ramones come and play in England and you
and members of The Clash break in and hang out with them back stage.
JL: Hello? The implication is that none of us were in bands at the time
yet somehow we what arranged a coach party and we all just broke in together,
like sheep in a field. How can they do that? You know you can tell there
is no Ramones left alive for them to be running off with a plot like that.
That doesn’t make sense even. It doesn’t make any practical,
logical sense. This is nonsense and bollocks and again it’s a lie
to sell The Ramones’ story. Well you know what, look at “The
Filth and Fury” the Sex Pistols story and you don’t be seeing
us playing that game on anyone. Alright. We stand by our own merits and
they should too. It lessens The Ramones, it lessens them. It doesn’t
make them better, and anyone who goes along nonsense like that you know,
kiss my ass.
Yeah, hello. Somebody just
reminded me that the very night The Ramones were at this Roundhouse
thing, from that film, I was actually playing a live gig at Sheffield,
alright, the Sex Pistols were already up and at it mate, so it’s
historically incorrect. It’s a lie. It’s a lie. I wouldn’t
normally even bother to deal with it but we’re having a good talk
here and it’s important for you to understand what is and isn’t
in life. You know, I can’t be bothered to live a lie. And I don’t
think anyone should and if you need to propagate a bands mythology around
lies there can’t be too much substance there, can there.
Tully: Fair enough
JL: Poor Joey, miss you mate. But you know, look what they’re doing
to ya.
Tully: Something that I gather talking to you is it seems like,
you think to some extent or another that there is an institutional…well
I won’t use the word there, there is an overall, I wouldn’t
want to say agenda, against the Sex Pistols and against you.
JL: No, not an agenda, what there is, is society is basically a headless
chicken, alright. There’s no great leadership going on and it’s
confused and it consistently needs to adopt boundaries, fences and walls
to contain us because people are so scared of taking the next logical
step unless it’s completely orchestrated and organized. We’re
still paying attention to keep off the grass, no smoking. Until we break
out of that there will be no such thing as freedom.
Tully: And keep off smoking grass.
JL: Oh no. No, that’s a good one.
Tully: So do you still enjoy the occasional toke?
JL: No, no I don’t advocate any, any use, or abuse or even neglect,
or misuse or lack of. Each individual should determine their own way in
life and I don’t preach one way or the other on that. I’m
utterly indifferent until you rub it in my face and insist that I either
agree or disagree because I don’t, plain and simple, I suit myself.
I don’t maintain what you would call a healthy lifestyle, not by
any stretch of the imagination.
Tully: You’ve had, I’m gonna estimate, seven cigarettes.
JL: Yeah, fine, and I’m still alive. I don’t exercise, you
know. Sometimes I occasionally, you know, quaff more than a few beverages.
I almost became legendary there for my capacity to absorb alcohol without
falling over. Well you know, so what. You know, I got bored with that.
Once the beer doesn’t work, I mean you do these things to mellow
down, but it just drove me right up. So I got bored and I moved on. But
every now and again I do like a nice ale.
Tully: Let me ask you, when you got here you said there are no
Sex Pistols coming out no PIL records coming out.
JL: No it’s all on import at the moment.
Tully: But what, are you interested in making new music?
JL: There are people out there who want to buy these things, yes, of course.
And they should, the old catalogues should still be there in the stores
and not on import you know, a few dollars more charge, right. And I find
that just repulsive, its just another way of conning people. And guess
what every time there’s an import sold, we don’t get royalties
on that.
Tully: You don’t get royalties on imports?
JL: We get lower royalties.
Tully: I see.
JL: But the price is higher. Isn’t that bizarre? It’s the
record company profiting from that little maneuver. And yes I am interested
in making new music, most certainly. I just released, in England, “The
Best of British One Pound Notes.” I cannot get it released here.
Tully: I find that impossible to believe.
JL: Impossible, but that’s the truth of it. And I’ve spanned
many different things in my life and it’s a serious compilation
of all the songs I’ve wrote. And on it there is one new song it’s
called “The Rabbit Song.” That is part of a whole new album,
alright, that I’ve put together and I cannot get released. I cannot
get anyone wanting to release it so I’m basically gonna have to
go into basically selling it myself on the Internet. Which is, oh my God,
such a lot of effort. It really is, but it’s down to this, mates
and women, money. Where’s the money gonna come from?
Tully: All of these labels, the Victory Records, all of the bands,
all of the punk rock labels that have all of these bands that owe you,
obviously, a debt of gratitude. Not a single one of them wants to put
out a John Lydon record?
JL: No, no, no. They don’t want to touch us. It’s astounding
I suppose.
Tully: Why do you think that is?
JL: I’m glad for it because if they want to live in world of us
and them then I think it shows some kind of weak jealousy on their part.
It’s like play the game fair. They don’t. They don’t,
they don’t want us when it counts. And also it helps when a band
is run down like everything we’ve ever done, you know, to keep us
off labels, off record labels, to keep us out of record deals because
then they can grab us with their best of compilations.
Tully: Fair enough. Well the night that this airs is the night
that VH1 is going to show the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction, so
why don’t we wrap up. So why don’t you, what would you say
to people who might want to, might be thinking about watching that show
tonight?
JL: Well, I’ll tell you this, of course I didn’t go, we didn’t
go, to the Rock and Roll Hall of Shame, but we told them, we sent them
a nice letter explaining. That it was an improbable act on their part.
So somehow or the other they manage to induct us and hand the award to
themselves and have now sent it to their museum.
Tully: So you’re in, even though you didn’t accept
it?
JL: Yeah, but it’s in their museum. And they left it kinda opened
saying that if we wanted to go and collect it we could but if we go to
their museum. Well you know, Johnny and the boys don’t go cap in
hand to anyone. Alright? So you can keep your doorstop, cause it’s
gonna stay there forever. But I think our good name will last a lot longer
than that hole. That’s the most un-amusing museum.
Tully: Most un-Rock and Roll museum. Well thank you so much for
coming by, really, anytime you’d like we’re here.
JL: Alrighty.
Tully: That’s John Lydon. Sirius 28 Faction. |